Hello,
could you please remove this line : " Do not add Windows for games with a native version unless there is a very good reason to!" from new game submission form? Imagine you are a windows user which recently migrated to Linux. You want to play your WIndows games on Linux with Lutris, because you heard it’s more easy to install windows games on Linux with Lutris. For example, you own the Doom 3 windows cd but on Lutris only the Linux script version is available? (it’s just an example). Because it exists a Linux native version, some Linux gamers can not play with their Windows games on Linux? So what they should do? Put their cd to the trash and buy a Linux native version that are no longer sold? Or return to WIndows platform where their games are natively supported? We all know how it is difficult to be a gamer on Linux platform, less today than yesterday, but even today we can not play all the games we would like, for platform compatibility reasons. Because we know that, we should not add more difficulties to be a Linux gamers and be more open, a Linux user which play Windows games on Linux is a Linux gamer, that’s all, we should not force players to play native version but let them play the version they want, let them choice free, it’s the spirit of the open source software isn’t it? All that count is: a Linux gamer bought a game (Windows or Linux native) and the game can be played on Linux? So just play!
Regarding the games bought via internet (which typically provide all platforms available); installing the native version isn’t always the best option even if it’s available. Many games which had both Windows and Linux option have much better chances of working via Wine than natively (because Linux version may depend on libraries or library versions long gone or not compatible with your system, while Wine covers the dependencies of the Windows version adequately). For instance, hard dependency on Pssshaudio is not good news for anyone who specifically avoids using potteringware (there is apulse, of course, but it has limits as it was never aimed at games).
And even if the native game runs, Wine can still be a better choice for some games. Case in point: I recently installed Unreal Gold and UT99 on my work PC; they both have essentially the same engine, – Unreal Gold is the port of original Unreal to UT99 engine, – but Lutris installs UT99 as a Wine game while Unreal Gold is installed with the native port of the engine. After running additional installer to use GL drivers that actually work (because of course it’s necessary to do it separately), I found out that I cannot alt-tab out of Unreal Gold (the engine probably captures the screen or something), and trying to switch workplace only causes a sticky-keys reaction from Ctrl or Alt key (which defaults to shooting and alternate fire).
Windows users are accustomed to getting the Microsoft solution. Let them have it. The Lutris install script for the Windows version could install the Linux native version and report “success”.
Wut
Those anecdotes would be good examples of there being very good reasons, wouldn’t they?
If you bought the Windows version of a game for which there is (now?) a native Linux version, and your Windows license somehow won’t carry over, that would be a game where there was a reason to include a WINE installer, I would think. So far, all of the games I’ve bought that have Linux versions use one license for all platforms, so this particular thing would not be an issue.
Similarly, Windows games that run better or have more features under WINE than the native Linux ports would also have met the requirement for the very good reason for having a WINE script, IMO.
There are several ways to get Doom 3 (and BFG edition) playable on Linux without using Wine that work great. Besides, the original Doom 3 retail discs can be used to install it on Linux so that anecdote is not valid; I still have my physical copy. The Unreal Gold scenario might be a valid reason to allow a Wine install script along with a native Linux install script. Either way, the warning message should stay as it is. Support the work put into native ports when it is possible. Only resort to using Wine when all else fails.
The issue is not in “supporting the work”, the issue is letting users play the game comfortably regardless of the setup that needs to be done on their system to achieve that. Which happens to be the purpose of Lutris, incidentally. Because “native version exists but won’t run on your system, so you’re SOL” is not a good outcome. Not to mention the “native version exists so you have to find the place where it’s sold even if you own a Windows version already” which is still a thing that can happen (for example, I’ve played the Linux version of Project Black Sun a few years ago, but none of the places where you can buy the game today provide it anymore; and both Overlord games have a native version available, but only on Steam, while GOG and HB only have the Windows version).
I don’t see a problem with the message. The new game submission form could probably use an extra comments field to help give some context.
Ryochan said:
“The Unreal Gold scenario might be a valid reason to allow a Wine install script”
I’m agree with you on that point: Unreal Gold runs better with Wine than the native version, I own the game on Gog and I prefer to install the Windows version. Same thing for Heretic II, I tested the two versions, native Linux and Windows, the second one benefits on Windows an update patch never out for Linux version that greatly enhanced graphics. Another thing I’m agree with you: Doom III Windows version could be use with a Linux port that greatly enhanced the gaming experience: dhewm3.
But that’s not the point here, if a Linux gamer prefers to play the Windows Doom3 version on Lutris with Wine, because he has just found his old Windows cd and want to test it on Linux, or just for an unknown reason that in fact does not concern us, let him play his game the way he likes. Lutris should help Linux gamers to play their games, not to say them if they are good or bad gamers because they play the Windows or Linux game version…I really think this message give a bad image to Lutris and is not in phase with what Lutris should be: a game platform to play freely the game we want (whatever the version).
“Do not add Windows for games with a native version unless there is a very good reason to!”
The example you gave is valid reason to add a Windows tag/installer to a page.
If that’s the case, then this should be clarified in the warning, or at least in the guidelines on what can be submitted (which are currently limited to that warning message AFAIK). Because the message itself suggests that the Wine version is only allowed in completely exceptional cases (regardless of what the writer implied, the way it reads points that most if not all submissions would be rejected… and BOLD RED CAPITALS certainly don’t help in that regard), one cannot tell which reason is good enough (and will likely think than his own reason isn’t). So, there should be provided some more concrete examples of what is and what isn’t considered “a very good reason” (for example, the ones listed in this thread and/or used for submission at some point… incidentally, having a way to provide one’s reason for breaking the guideline would be nice, too).
P.S. Slightly off-topic but there’s a similar, if less severe, issue with the “Do not submit Steam games” message, as some of these games would not sync into Lutris library no matter how many times I try. There was a thread on this somewhere but I don’t remember if any moderators appeared in it to say what should be done with them.